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On observations and racism
This is something I have been wanting to write about for a long time now, but I haven't cuz it's a sensitive subject and might not go down too well for some people.
It's about the distinction between observations, and the conclusions one draws based on those observation, and being branded as sexist or racist.
Here's an example to make my point clear. I have observed, most of the people who I've met who smell bad are from south asia and the Indian subcontinent. This is purely based on my personal interactions with people, but it is a true observation without any prejudice. I have observed this living in the UAE, where there was a large contingent of south asians. I have observed this here, specially when I TA, and in the classrooms and labs. I have observed this sitting in the bus, or taking the subway. So it's not based on one or two particular experiences.
Also, some of my best friends here are from an indian background, and they don't smell bad at all, so I have nothing against the south asian people. I'm not even infering that they have poor hygene or they don't bathe. It's probably the oils and stuff that they use on their hair and bodies. But it is a true observation.
Now, obviously, I will draw conclusions from this, and it does have an impact on my behavior as well. Obviously, I do not like spending 3 hours in a poorly ventilated lab with someone who smells really bad. It is trivial, to draw conclusions based on observations. Isn't it the basis for scientific reasoning anyway?
Now, many of you have probably already labeled me as a racist, and that's what I don't get. Labelling everything and everyone as a racist has become so popular, that people, like me, are even afraid to talk about their observations, fearing this labelling.
Another example is the Harvard cheif speech, about women in science. Again, I will get some shit for this, but I really don't see anything wrong with that particular speech. Again, it's a matter of observation, and history. When you think about all the great scientists, I'm sure most, if not all the pictures that come across your mind are old bearded men. Think about history. All the great scientists have been consistently men. Opression of women, you say? I say that's bullshit. Surely the scientific mind can rise above any opression. Why should I be afraid of talking about this purely factual and true observation? Why should I be more afraid in drawing conclusions about the capabilities of males and females?
Anyway, if drawing conclusions based on solid observations makes one a racist, then I am a racist.
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You started a bit conservative and ended a bit hostile! But I see what you mean; still can't bring myself to say that women in the old days did not make contributions to science though!
by Saba at April 6, 2005 08:39 PM
I think often people get mixed up between race and culture. Cultural differences are real, racial differences are not. Sometimes cultural difference result in some individuals thinking other individuals are smelly. But you should still be tolerant of that, because maybe they don't bathe because it's forbidden by their god and they don't want to go to whatever hell they believe in. Or maybe they can't afford the soap. Either way.
But yeah, smelly people stink. Remember that big fat smelly guy that always wore the leather jacket? I had to write a math exam above and behind him, and I swear by the end there were tear stains on my paper.
by deaner at April 6, 2005 10:57 PM
Dean, what triggered this post was another smelly guy with the EXACT same leather jacket sitting beside me on the bus for a very long trip!!!
I TOTALLY disagree about being tolerant. They have to adapt to the living norms in modern societities. I absolutely should not be forced to have to tolerate a smelly guy on a long trip. If their culture demands them being smelly, they shouldn't live in a big city, inconveniencing other people. That's exactly my point.
You have to adapt to where you're living in.
by legofish at April 6, 2005 11:24 PM
A scientific mind can not rise above oppression if it has been denied leeway to explore.
Perhaps infusing a cogent structure to your methodology of drawing conclusions is necessary.
by Name at April 7, 2005 02:53 AM
Hehe... yeah really i'm pretty intolerant of smelly people too. Next time you're sitting beside an intolerably smelly person, you should tell them exactly how smelly they are, and suggest that they use the new Axe Body Wash.
It actually boggles my mind that some people aren't aware of how offensive their odour is. And it's not always from lack of bathing, there's also a lot of people that go off the deep end with their cologne. Maybe it should be a ticketable offense (call it a form of pollution?).
by deaner at April 7, 2005 03:23 AM
i know what you mean....i think it has to do with many different things, a mixture of genetics, food preparation and the spices used in food.(along with not very careful hygeine in just some cases) Why do people who eat garlic still smell of it even after brushing their teeth? because the chemicals causing the odour (and actually the same ones which prevent cancer) go into the bloodstream and pass out in the sweat. i had similar unpleasant experiences in my gym..its got to be pretty bad if the you cannot swim for the smell of a few people in the water!
As for the women in science argument....mixed reactions...i consider myself a scientist and on a personal level i know my brain does not necessarily compute things in the same way as men...as for historical figures in science and engineering....well, there are some examples which spring to mind, some famous like Marie Curie who was acknowledged for her work in discovering radium...and then lesser known individuals such as Rosalind Franklin who was not acknowledged for her work in discovering the structure of DNA..yet again the men Crick and Watson took all the credit! In short, to some extent I agree, but being a woman i must beg to differ...lol
by anahita at April 7, 2005 04:41 PM
Where you get labelled a racist is when you start linking people's hygene (or lack thereof) to their nationality or their race. The world is less than perfect, but once you make an "observation" (or a couple, in fact), you spread that "observation" publicly in forums like this or just during your conversations with your friends. Anyone who gets subjected to your observations, accepts them without doing any "research" of their own (coz everyone trusts your judgement!)... once they start spreading that "observation" though, they start attaching stuff to it that you never mentioned (exaggeration => gossip => disaster). So observing things based on people's races and sexes is not bad (esp since you don't strike me as the racist or the sexist type, and, hey, it's a free country), but making those observations public and talking about them, indirectly turns you into a racist. The average person, when they read this post of yours won't remember the epilogue and the background story you gave. They will only remember the statements: Indians are smelly, girls are not as smart as boys!
And that's exactly why the Harvard speech was inappropriate too. All of America (imagine average American farmer family living in Oklahoma!) looks at statements coming out of Harvard as "THE" facts. Anyone who is a public figure of the slightest kind needs to be more responsible with their views and the propagation of those views.
Besides, you live in Toronto and to you smelly people are South Asians. Someone in Vancouver would count Asians (Chinese etc) smelly!
I hope I don't have to start another blah-blah about how I don't think you're wrong. Obviously, if I'm reading your blog, you're a responsible intellectual person. I'm just making the point about why people (GENERALLY) are wrong to make these observations about races and sexes.
by passerby at April 7, 2005 09:28 PM
The definition of "racism" has become so broad as to be meaningless. I take it that a racist is someone who believes that an individual's moral, intellectual and physical capacities are exclusively determined by their genetic pedigree. Moreover, the racist ascribes an immutable "essence" to different races, and privileges his racial "essence" over others.
You've done none of the above in your observations and comments. So you're not a racist. (Unfortunately).
by Reza at April 8, 2005 04:59 AM
Pendar-e koshtip!
I am so damn tired that I cannot logically kick your ass right now. However, you are not off the hook yet, I will write a response to your honest politically incorrect observations